So who really won the Showdown on Coruscant?

nice


This is how it should of been

Pwnage

of course this has been going on for years, but still it is good to crack it open once in a while

haha that video never gets old

lol, great video!

I think Palpatine faked being weak through the entire fight, and when anikin showed up, he just went with it. Rember, Palpatine knew how powerful Mace was, he had been keeping watch over the Jedi for years, he knew thier full potential. on the other hand, If the fight had gone on longer Mace may have won IF Anakin decided to help, or some other distraction occured
For the most part I think they were verry evenly matched

anakin was just a bad character concept, end of story. Now yoda, palps, Mace, Aayla, Obi-Wan, they were good characters. Even Padme was until Ep 3, she was awesome in EP 2. Just freaking Lucas had to ruin it all

Probabably one of the deadliest force users alive versus the greatest duelist of the time. Pretty even there. Palpy should have varied his force use a little besides just shooting lightning so mace could hold still.

I dont think Anakin was a bad character concept. How else could they show the fall of Anakin and the rise of Darth Vader without him being some troubled individual?

I dont think Palpatine planned the battle. He was a great strategist in a way and at manipulating people but not the best duelist. During the battle Palps is getting all pissed off with snarling and hissing and all that sith crap. Mace was just cool under pressure. Was it easy for him? of course not, but he was better than Palpatine/ Sidious. Also do you think palpatine would put himself at unnecessary risk just to convert Anakin to the darkside while fighting one of the greatest duelists in history?

I agree, people complain that he was a whiney emo brat, and that ruined the character, but what they dont understand is this: THATS HOW THE CHARACTER IS SUPPOSED TO BE!!!!!

I guess people just had a way different concept of what they thought he would be like.

I believe that while Mace was stronger and would have won the one on one battle eventually(remember, Palps was old and he was out of practise), Palpatine had betted on Anakin coming and saving him. I dont think he was certain he would choose him, it was a risk on his part, one that he won.
Its a shame really, other than Obi-Wan, Mace was my favorite character, followed by Yoda.

^^Agreed, except about Obi-Wan. I never warmed up to Obi-wan, because he was not stated to be one of the greatest duelists, but the movie portrayed him as such.

I believe that they both were equal. Palpatine planned the conversion of the Republic to the Empire for years. When Anakin started coming to him, he tried to corrupt him. Palps was fighting good and Mace was beating him, until Anakin came and started playing weak to seem like a fragile friend in need. He knew Anakin's sympathy and his will to "save his wife" would be enough to convert him to the Dark Side. Once Anakin sided with him, he returned to full power, so I would say Mace would have won without Anakin, but he was killed by both.

I thought Obi-wan was pretty cool AK and if he was on the Jedi Council then you would have to assume he was an exceptional duelist.

I think Palpatine had things planned. He was powerful enough in the force to overcome Yoda's attempt to stop him.

Pfft, Yoda was just as powerful as Palps, if not more powerful. You have to remember he is the Grand Master of the order, and with nearly 900 years of experience in combat he is more than a match to palpatine

True, but Palpatine was much more coniving than Yoda. Yoda, I believe, was greater in all things Force....but Palpatine was an exception.

Hmm. Anakin, Palpatine, Luke....this certainly was a time of "exceptions" wasn't it?

And delta, I suppose you have a point....and he did train under Qui-Gon...but not all Council members were extreme duelists though, I don't think. Yarael Poof (guy with long, skinny neck and round head)? I always thought Ob-Wan to be proficient, but certainly not as skilled as Greivous, who killed many Jedi. He just got lucky there.

That's true, but how did he beat Anakin, since he is this "all powerful chosen one"?

Yoda can beat Palps everyday. The only reason he lost is because he lost his saber and due to his height couldnt hold on to the railing. Palps was taller and held on, but Yoda fell. Yoda had him but he decided to leave before the security clones came to.

And Obi-Wan is stated many times to have been one of the more famous Jedi during the clone wars due to his superb fighting skills. Who taught Anakin how to fight you think?

Well, Anakin did have the highest midichlorian count EVER, so the Force would have given him an edge over anyone any day. Obi Wan was a good cduelist sure, but when it came to foes like Greivous (who made a habit of killing prominant Jedi in hand-to-hand combat, and was a highly skilled warrior before being cyborgized), he fell a bit short.

Windu, Plo Koon, Greivous, Yoda, Darth Maul, and finally Darth Vader.....THEY were greats. Darth Krayt and Luke can also be considered as being on the same level. Obi Wan is more proficient in the Force rather than lightsaber combat-that's not saying he wasn't any good, it just seems to me (especially in the original movies) he was relatively stronger in the Force than in saber dueling.

I would not count Greivous in your list of greats. He was just a tactician with a bunch of fancy gadgets that helped him kill jedi. I think you are not giving Obi-Wan the credit he deserves. He beat Greivous fare and square and same with Anakin. He could have KILLED Anakin if it wasnt for the fact he already thought he was dead from the lava.

Well, Anakin wasn't even thinking straight then. I do recognize Obi Wan's skill, but I don't think it's as great as Greivous'. Remember, Greivous didn't even use the Force, so he was already at a disadvantage. His gadgets just evened the odds against Force users. In terms of dueling, he was very proficient. He did kill Adi Gallia, who had excellent combat experience, and Obi Wan only barely beat Greivous by shooting him while he was exposed-so, had Greivous closed his armor, he would have been fine.

Oh well-to each his own.

Grievous may not have the force but he has a droids physical strength and FOUR fucking limbs each able to carry a lightsaber. I think that more than makes up for his lack of the Force.

Obi-Wan was the strongest Jedi save for Yoda, the Emperor and maybe Mace.
He beat Grievous fair and square, and Anakin lost to him as well.
His Lightsaber fighting skills were apparently better tha Annie's since they only used one force push and a couple of force jumps.

Anakin was also supposed to be stronger in his Dark side of the force but his arrogance got to him. Its his own fault and it isnt a excuse.

Actually he could have as many 6 lightsabers because his legs had built in repuslerslifts that can double as hands and he could carry lightsabers on those as well. For some reason he was stupid enough not to use it against obi wan (or the film makers thought that would make it him to overpowered).

no, the film makers figured it would just look retarded, which it would look like

Wow, Republic, I didn't realize how much you liked Obi Wan....


To say he was greatest other than Yoda and Windu is a bit much to be sure. And I don't see how shooting a droid's exposed internal organs counts as fair-and how said was stupid enough to leave them open.

And how does a few gadgets even begin to make for the Force? Especially when speaking of someone as well versed in it as Obi Wan?

Grevious had a crap lode of strength as seen when he beat the crap out of Obi in hand to hand combat, he had four arms which could hold FOUR lightsabers compared to the average jedi who only wielded one, and was a lot more durable. That is enough gadgets to even the playing field

Its not much, he beat Grievous and Anakin and could possibly take on the Emperor although in the end he would lose.

Shooting exposed internal organs counts as fair when you've gone through hell to expose em.


And four extra arms and immense physical strength is NOT some gadgets.

Considering how much of an extra boost you get when tapping into the Force....

For a Jedi as in tune with the Force as Obi-Wan (or any Jedi Master for that matter), no amount of physical strength can top the power one can gain from focusing on drawing strength from the Force. How do you think Obi-Wan got the armor open? If it was that easy to expose, Greivous would have died long ago.

I still don't consider Obi Wan as powerful as you do. That's just personal opinion, though, and I won't try to convince you otherwise, since we really can't change each other's opinions over the Internet.

Grevious's duel involved a bit of luck, and Anakin was fighting with his emotions and not his head (not to mention Obi Wan knew his tendencies during combat). I'm not downplaying his victories, but they weren't easy for him.

Uh... On R21's side... Obi-Wan defeated two sith lords.

No other jedi from that time had done that.

Anakin also knew Obi's fighting style and if he was fighting with his emotions then its HIS fault and he faught better because of it, not worse.

And I dont think anyone has approached close enough to grievous to know if his chest plate opens easily and even then, it was damaged by Mace. I certainly dont think Kenobi was using the force at the time.

If one thing is sure, is that kenobi is a better Jedi than Anakin any day.

I sense a bit of fanboy talk in the last statement. Anakin is made to be the greatest Force user of the age, whether or not we like it.

Daru, who was the other Sith Lord? Besides, Darth Maul wasn't a lord by then-he was an apprentice. That being said, he was an excellent duelist, as evidenced by the fact that he killed Qui-Gon, who is stated to have been a great swordsman himself (how else did Obi Wan get so good?).

I see Obi Wan as a talented Jedi whose main strength is his mind. I don't really see as the paragon of the Order that Republic does-I see him as a very skilled Jedi counted amongst the greats of the time.

I sense some Antagonist talk in that statement.

And if Kenobi wasnt the greatest, he was ast least stronger than Anakin, strong enough to beat him. Anakin in his furious state made him faster and slightly stronger, if more careless.

He may have won the fight the fight, but it wasn't a test of true skill due to the high level of emotion involved (the Padme thin especially). Obi Wan was victorious due to his greater sense of control and focus on the fight itself, rather than Anakin's focus on his emotional pain.

Actually both master and apprentice are considered to be sith lord according the rule of 2. All according to the all knowing wookiepedia.

Order of the Sith Lords/Rule of Two
Darth Sidious, Dark Lord of the Sith

All Sith following the Rule of Two, both master and apprentice, held the title of Dark Lord of the Sith. This list is in chronological order.

* Darth Bane
* Darth Zannah
* Darth Cognus
* Darth Millennial
* Darth Ramage
* Darth Vectivus
* Darth Plagueis
* Darth Sidious
* Darth Maul
* Darth Tyranus
* Darth Vader

And under Darth Maul biography he is listed as a Zabrak Sith Lord.

Isnt that the sign of a great jedi? If Anakin lost control, its his fault.

Yes, I'm not disagreeing with that at all. In fact, I agree. But victory does not always indicate the victor posses greater skill.

After, there are more factors than skill alone in a fight. Obi Wan won that fight no doubt, but not due to skill alone.

Obi-Wan was a better Jedi than Anikan. He is an amazing example of following the code by the book, and a greater example of the order itself.

But Anikan lost because his emotions were going BONKERS. HE was going BONKERS. He was also exposing himself to a new side of The Force, but had NO experience using it.

Anikan is stronger than Obi Wan... But a better Jedi? No. Obi is the textbook Jedi.



Anyways... The other sith lord is Darth Vader. Anikan WAS Darth Vader at the time of Episode III when palpatine said, "Dahth, Vaderhhhhhh..."



Defeat does not necessarily mean KILL either. Basically, Obi is a badass mofo.

The two possessed the same amount of skill in my opinion. Given time, Anakin may have surpassed Obi-Wan since he was already in his prime and Anakin was still developing. But he went and fucked things up.
And while their skills were the same, Obi-Wan was a better fighter than Anakin. Obi-Wan was fighting to protect, he was fighting for what was right, while Annie was fighting for his own selfish reasons. That gave Kenobi resolve to fight his padawan without hesitation because dont forget people, Kenobi thought Anakin was hisbrother till the last moment. It wasnt easy for him to fight his only padawan and friend for years. Anakin didnt seem to even entertain that hesitation, since he didnt even hesitate to choke Padme.

That last point made no sense to me. Intent is completely different from skill, since it changes with every fight. Therefore, Obi Wan couldn't be a greater fighter due to his intent, because intent would alter his fighting ability per engagement.

Obi Wan had greater resolve and determination to win this particular fight, but Anakin's skills at dueling were more advanced-although not by much, since he lost the fight. Of course, Obi Wan's dedication to his cause as well as Anakin's overly emotional state played into the situation a great deal.

I dont think Anakin was better, he could be with time, but at the moment he wasnt.

Well, if that;s what it comes down to, we can only follow our own opinions. I mean, unless George Lucas or that lifless moronic cottonheaded jackass Leland Chee says anything about it, there's nothing to say whether or not Anakin or Obi Wan was better.

Leland Chee... I know that name...

Isn't he famous for Fucking stuff up?

In my humble opinion. He's the guys that decides canon on random minor stuff even thoug he has NEVER EVER contributed ANYTHING at ALL to the development of Star Wars. He really does nothing other than come up with backstories and canon backgrounds for things that don't have them.

Really, he's just a kid with unlimited power in a sandbox he did nothing to help build.

Now isnt that a little bit too angsty?

Maybe, but its all true. Read all of his stupid little nitpicky desicions-the guys adds NO value at all to the franchise, and just fouls things up royally for everyone but himself in his own twisted little world.

He touches the Moldy Crow, and I'll find him.

I'd help you. Anytime.

I dont know the guy, so I wont comment on that.

he makes some sorta story/explanation for pretty much why whoever was in the background of a scene was there. So like when Luke and Obi-wan go to the Catina, he probably made an individual explanation why each and every one of those people was in there.

And why is he flamed by some unnaturally angsty forum-ers?